Your title is misleading, I think it is very clear that Oracle does not certify VMware in the first paragraph. With that caveat, the fact that Oracle would even attempt to support customer with uncertified software/hardware is pretty darn nice. Now, the big question is if Oracle is potentially going to ask the customer to reproduce the error on native o/s and bare metal, without the hypervisor layer, probably means that customers have to weigh the cost of spare hardware to provide debugging if needed, versus the cost of virtualizing their environment.
What paying Oracle customers should dislike about a policy such as this trick being pulled on VMware customers is the bit about reproducing a problem when "running on the native OS." Shouldn't it also suffice to reproduce it in an Oracle VM (OVM environment) or even within Virtualbox for that matter?
One would think so. Is that too logical?
thanks for your comment - and an interesting statement from your side.
As you know both Oracle VM and Virtual Box is code Oracle has sort of control on - but not on VMware. As I've spent some time dealing with issues people did raise to me regarding this post (some simply sent emails and didn't comment to the public) I can tell you that Oracle Support did always a pretty good job in not teasing customers. The 6 or 7 SRs I have looked at did extremly well justify if this is an independent issue or if it might be VM related.
I think that you recommend to use Oracle VM to get all layers of Oracle's business. I installed oracle database on VMWare ESX in long time and I had no problem about administration. but one point is that VM solution just have one purpose ... cost reduction
Now that Oracle RAC is supported in VMWare, would it be sufficient to reproduce an issue in a RAC/VMWare setup, rather than on physical hardware ?
All, this has been going on for some time and I have had both Oracle and VMware state that they fully support the VMware configuration. I know that some users have had performance problem and this is due to improper sizing of ether their physical host or guest OS “NOT THE UNDERLYING VMware”. I have ran both SUN VM and VMware and both perform great. See the below links.
I wonder if someone here could help me to resolve the problem I have.
I have an application composed of two software components and a data base. I have tested my application on a virtuel environment; that is : a virtual environement for each component and also for the oracle data base. With this virtual environement, I have no problem and my application works well.
Now, when I place each component of my application on a physiqual server and also the data base on a different physical server, I noticed problems. The major problem is that it seems that connections between one of teh components ans the data base, are lost and my application cannot continue.
can anyone give ma an idea, what can be the problem with the real environment.
Thank you in advance
Thanks for your post but sorry to say that I can't help you with just this limited very general information. But you might either: (a) raise a support ticket at support.oracle.com or (b) go to the OTN forums and search for the best matching topic and post your inquiry there.
Thanks and kind regards Mike
Mike, when you say "in case of a failure that it could happen that you'll have to be able to reproduce misbehaviour of an Oracle product outside a VMware environment" is it true to say that you always have the right to ask us to reproduce the bug on another hardware plateform ? Meening even if we run Oracle product on physical hardware, lets say an IBM Blade, and we find a new bug you never seen before, you could potentialy ask us to reproduce the bug on some other hardware to demonstrate that the bug is related to Oracle & not to a specific hardware ? My point is you do not certify on VMWAre nor on IBM nor on Dell, etc... you stop at the OS level, you cetify on AIX not on pSeries... what if a bug exist with the new Power7 processors but do not exist on Power6 ?
thanks for your comment.
First of all you are 100% right - Oracle certifies on the OS level and just in very rare cases (RAC etc.) hardware gets special certifications. But we don't certify usually on IBM, Dell, NEC or whatever hardware.
But in the VMware case you are involving an extra SOFTWARE layer between Oracle and the OS. And this will make things more complicated - by the way not only for Oracle but for everybody else as well.
As I've explained in many replies above already Support "may" ask you to reproduce misbehaviour out the VIRTUAL environment. It won't matter on which hardware you'll do that, it would simly matter that it's the same OS platform (so logging a bug in Solaris won't mean that you should verify that on Linux as well - we'll do such a thing internally if required). Oracle Support won't ask you for verification if you'll get wrong results from a query - but the folks may ask you in case of an ORA-7445 core dump once the stack trace shows some relation to the OS layer. And this makes a 100% sense. How should we fix an issue which is not clearified to be dependent on our code but may depend on the virtualization code layer? We'll do that actually if we (Oracle) have control on the virtualization code layer (Oracle VM, Virtual Box) - but not for 3rd party vendors.
You say "But in the VMware case you are involving an extra SOFTWARE layer between Oracle and the OS."
I do think this is not true... we certainly add extra software layer… between the hardware & the OS that you certify on… but not between the OS & Oracle... For you, it is a pure RedHat or OEL (we are a linux shop).
Thank you for a great article and for keeping the comments answered almost a year later!
"But in the VMware case you are involving an extra SOFTWARE layer between Oracle and the OS. And this will make things more complicated - by the way not only for Oracle but for everybody else as well."
Actually, the OS runs on VMware, so there is no software between Oracle and the OS as you stated.
We have over 400 VMs in our environment, and we have yet to see any VMware related issues.
You are right and I was wrong ;-) Thanks for the correction. But you are involving a piece of SW between Oracle, the OS and the guest OS - and that doesn't make things easier. When you look for instance at the Windows architecture with the HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) and you put now a virtualization software plus a guest OS on top the virtualization software has to map all requests in the correct way to the host OS and all its layers. This is not trivial (but thanks to all the VM providers it usually works well).
But again the problem may arrise that Oracle gets errors related to the OS layer - and this may lead to the situation that you'll have to be able to reproduce things without the virtualization layer.
"Considering the fact that Oracle is probably the most expesive database available in the market these days" --> Well, just take a look at DB2 on z/OS and talk then about expensive :)
I see no issue with Oracle's support/certification statement. For the record, this is what Microsoft says about working with non-Microsoft, non-partnered software when you have premier support (article id 897615): "...As part of the investigation, Microsoft may require the issue to be reproduced by the customer independently from the non-Microsoft hardware virtualization software. This may be done on Windows Server 2008 (with Hyper-V), the actual hardware platform with the Windows operating system installed directly upon it, or on both...".
I actually think Oracle's policy is easier to read between the lines. Maybe Oracle should include an additional clause that adds something like "...may require you to reproduce on Oracle VM...". That might increase the uptake of Oracle VM ;-)
Does this position also translate to other non-Oracle virtualization mediums i.e. HP-UX 11i v3 Virtualization Server OE (VSE-OE) Integrity Virtual Machine? Will Oracle Support ask end users to replicate the issue directly to a native OS without a virtualiztion middle tier?
Thanks in advance.
Yes, as far as I know this will apply the HP's virtualization software as well. But to be 100% sure you'll have to double check with Oracle Support as I'm not in the position to give you any official statement on that topic.
Thanks for your input and kind regards Mike
Hi Mike, Nice info in this thread!
To add to Fernando's question, what about LPAR's?
Best regards, Steven
thanks for your question - and actually I don't know how Support handles those - so you might please (I hate to say that but ...) open a Service Request and ask Oracle Support.
this is of course all x86 related.
hypervisors on Solaris/SPARC and AIX/POWER are supported.
Also worth mentioning if you are running Oracle on VMware there are two Oracle Enterprise Manager 12c (EM12c) plugins available from Blue Medora specifically focused on VMware that provide EM12c based performance / health / availability monitoring, management, as well as Oracle on VMware license compliance monitoring and alerting. Both of them can be found in the Oracle Extensibility Exchange:
It appears that the bottom line here is that Oracle does NOT support Oracle on VMware; Oracle does support Oracle on a particular OS and if an issue appears to be related to that OS being present on VMware, then the issue will need to be reproduced outside of VMware for Oracle to provide support for that issue.
I didn't read all the comments, and I am not sure if someone already told that VMware has a special support policy for Oracle with expanded support and total ownership of the problems that occur in Oracle products running over VMware environment. Take a look at the following url:https://www.vmware.com/br/support/policies/oracle-support
Thanks a lot for this information.
When you say "Oracle will only provide support for issues that either are known to occur", do we have a repository/page where we keep all the known issues that may occur while running Oracle products on VMware?
sorry but our great blogging software does not allow me to edit this 4 year old entry with a change - but this mos note: Note:942852.1 - VMWare Certification for Oracle Products mentioned still in the blog post disappeared without notice or pointer to a newer version from the support portal. Sorry for the inconvenience
no, unfortunately such a page does not exist - but it's a good starting point at MOS Note 161818.1, then drill down via the links under the release number in the left-most column, drill further down to your specific patch set and check for the known issues and alerts. That's the best you can do.
there is some document or metalink note about the bellow text??
"But there is no guarantee that this is perfect and therefore in some situations the VMware could use more than 2 cores of real power o On top of this"
thanks, regards Mariano
I don't think so. And I'm not even sure anymore if this is true these days. 4 years ago when I wrote the comment you are referring to it was true. You'll have to check with Support for an official statement please.
I have run Oracle on VMWare and OVM and never had any issues that the underlying software Vendor did not resolve. What Oracle customers and potential customers need to understand is that Oracle Licensing does NOT allow for virtualiztion. They don't even allow it on OVM. The only reason customers use OVM is so they can partition out CPUs to meet their licensing requirements and LMS will only recognize this if you go in to the hypervisor and PIN the CPUs to a given guest which of course defeats the point of virtualiztion.
I think it would be in everyone best interest if Oracle would adapt to a technology that has been around since the 80s. Provide licensing for the virtual layer and not just the physical. Get over yourself.
Soft Partitioning: Examples of such partitioning type include: Solaris 9 Resource Containers, AIX Workload Manager, HP Process Resource Manager, Affinity Management, Oracle VM, and VMware.
Unless explicitly stated elsewhere in this document, soft partitioning (includingfeatures/functionality of any technologies listed as examples above) is not permitted as a means to determine or limit the number of software licenses required for any given server or cluster of servers.
I think that the 'reproduce on outside of VMWare' requirement is kinda bunk. If I called you and said I'm having this issue with my AMD Opteron HP server, would you tell me 'I'm sorry, but you'll need to reproduce it on an Intel based Dell server to prove that its Oracle that is really the problem.'? I don't think so.
Talvez oracle esta forzando a usar sus productos... siento que esto tiene que ver mas con la parte comercial...
Soft Partitioning, Threads, CPUs and Licensing...
According to new SE2 License there is 16 CPU threads and 2 CPU socket limit. This mean I can use maximum configuration with 2 CPU 4-core each with HT (Hyper Threading) enabled. If I have 6-core or 8-core CPUs in 2 socket configuration I have to disable HT to conform licensing requirement?
But on the same hardware with soft partitioning solution: lets say KVM (Oracle Linux Enterprise) I can't launch two guests with OracleDB SE/SE1/SE2 on the same license?
"...soft partitioning ... is not permitted as a means to determine or limit the number of software licenses required..." what that mean?, some example needed!
Sebastian, you don't have to disable HT. The only physical restriction you'll have to fulfill with SE2 is the 2 CPU Socket requirement. Everything else is ensure via the resource manager by ourselves.
Please see the SE2 postings I've done in the past months for a more detailed explanation (e.g. "SE2 - Some Questions, Some Answer")
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