Updated Tips for Debugging Sun JRE + Forms Focus Issues for EBS 11i and 12

Oracle Jinitiator 1.3 will be desupported for Oracle E-Business Suite Release 11i users at the end of this month, July 31, 2009.  If you haven't already begun your conversion from JInitiator to the native Sun Java Runtime Engine (JRE) plug-in, now is the time to start. 

The end of this month marks the end of the JInitiator era for Apps 11i.  After this point, we will only support the Sun JRE for Forms users connecting to the E-Business Suite.  I've summarized everything you need to know about the EBS switch from JInit to the Sun JRE in this roundup article.

Sun Java Website screenshot Screencap of Sun's Java SE website

Clusters of Common Focus-Related Issues

As more of you make the cutover, we've seen that your reported issues are clustering around some common themes.  Based on your feedback and reported issues, we've updated our internal training for all Support engineers who cover Applications Technology topics.  Our latest diagnostic and debugging techniques for EBS Forms focus-related issues have been refreshed. 

Our Support and Development teams published notes for diagnosing Forms focus-related issues with Apps 11i earlier this year.  That troubleshooting guide's scope has been broadened to include additional guidance and tips for Oracle E-Business Suite Release 12 environments, too:

The latest topics covered in this Note include:

  • What is a focus issue?
  • Why are Focus Issues Experienced?
  • Symptoms Indicating a Loss in Focus
  • Strategy for Investigating and Resolving Focus Issues
  • The Right Checks to Ensure it's a Focus Issue
  • Fixing Known Focus Issues
  • Determining the Current Forms Version and MLR Patch (Release 11i)
  • Determining the Current Forms Version and MLR Patch (Release 12)
  • Gathering the Right Information
  • Debugging Steps for Focus Issues
  • Reporting a Focus Loss to Oracle Support Services

Getting Support from Oracle for Your Conversion

I've noted this before, but it's worth repeating. We're very interested in helping you get through this conversion with a minimum of pain. If you hit any problems with your Apps conversion to the native Sun JRE plug-in, please log a formal Service Request via Metalink. Our Support engineers will work with you on this, and also track the underlying issues to see whether changes to our documentation or patches are warranted. If necessary, we'll work with Sun to get fixes prioritized for future JRE releases, too.

Given my position in Oracle Development and the visibility of this blog, I sometimes think that my perspective on customer deployments might be a little skewed.  I'd appreciate your help in getting an accurate view of how these conversions are going for you. I'd be very interested in hearing about your experiences, good or bad. What went well? What went sideways? Please feel free to sound off in the comments or drop me a private email with more details about your migration.

Related Articles

Comments:

Hi Steven,

We have been facing forms focus issues after going on Dev 6i patchset 19 since Feb 2009. The issues are difficult to reproduce, but we have recorded it using "Demo it to Oracle" program. We are on Jinitiator 1.3.1.29. Oracle support has steadfastly pushed back all our requests to investigate the matter and are forever suggesting us to upgrade to latest Sun JRE plugin. When we logged SR with them in March they were recommending upgrade to 1.6.0_10 and now they are recommending 1.6.0_14. It is obvious that they are waiting for July 31, 2009 when Jinitiator will be obsoleted. After that they can officially say that Oracle doesn't support Jinitiator.

However upgrading JRE in our environment is not so simple. There are hundreds of applications dependant on JRE and simply upgrading it may break many of them. Our desktop team is doing a year long project to bring all applications on JRE 1.6. Till that is done, we can't really migrate from Jinitiator to Sun JRE.

The attitude of Oracle support regarding this matter is no good.

- Vikram

Posted by Vikram Das on July 23, 2009 at 04:34 AM PDT #

Hi, Vikram,

Thanks for sharing this with me.

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences with Oracle Support. Sun continues to release new JRE versions to address focus-related issues, which might account for some of the continued suggestions to go to yet-another JRE version.

Can you email me the SR number? I'd like to have someone look into this.

Regards,
Steven

Posted by Steven Chan on July 27, 2009 at 04:01 AM PDT #

Oracle Jinitiator 1.3 will be desupported for Oracle E-Business Suite Release 11i users at the end of this month, July 31, 2009.
==> Is the above statement true for those having 11i EBS extended support? Could you please clarify.

-OptimisticDBA

Posted by OptimisticDBA on July 27, 2009 at 07:13 PM PDT #

Hello, OptimisticDBA,

Yes, this statement is true for those having 11i EBS extended support. JInitiator's desupport date is independent of EBS 11i's support windows.

Regards,
Steven

Posted by Steven Chan on July 28, 2009 at 03:14 AM PDT #

Hi Steven,

Our overall experience of migrating to the native Sun JRE plug-in was very positive because we had different organizations managing users' desktops and application servers. The coordination needed to deploy a newer JRE version is now much easier than the coordination required for upgrading JInitiator/managing certdb file, etc.

I have exchanged a few emails with you on the Forms Mouse Focus issue that we encountered after upgrading to the "next generation Java" in 1.6.0_10 and higher. After reviewing the note highlighted in this article along with the notes they refer to, we applied the latest MLR form-focused patch at the time, followed up with users, and the frequency of the problem was significantly reduced (occurred twice within 6 weeks reportedly, e.g.)...

In note 760250.1, it states: "Generate product JAR files'. It will be best to use the Force option to make sure all JAR files are refreshed". I would suggest adding this in the patch README file in the future because running adadmin by default:

Do you wish to force regeneration of all jar files? [No]

I have seen consultants/DBAs usually just pick default. When we apply the form focused patch, we review README, not necessarily note 760250.1. I meant to provide the feedback sooner, but checked the note: 290807.1 and found out the newer form focus patch is available again. I have asked Metalink if we can subscribe to notes that require our actions and are relevant to our installations and am waiting for a confirmation from Metalink.

Hope this helps.
Jennifer.

Posted by Jennifer Chen on September 14, 2009 at 08:05 AM PDT #

Hi, Jennifer,

This is very helpful. Thanks very much for taking the time to summarize your experiences here.

Our patch READMEs are automatically-generated, but I'll look into how we can emphasize the JAR file refresh recommendation in our EBS JRE installation documentation. Great tip!

Regards,
Steven

Posted by Steven Chan on September 16, 2009 at 05:18 AM PDT #

Steven:
Nice to meet you in person at OOW last week.
Sandra V. (our DBA) and I upgraded our EBS 11.5.10.2 to JRE 1.6.0.16 following note 290807.1.

However, previous versions of this note (and note 393931.1 for r12) mentioned Static vs Non-Static provisioning. The current release of the note 290807.1 for 11i users no longer has this Appendix.

It appears that we are stuck with a static provisioning model in 11i, based on our test installation. The test PC had JRE1.6.0.15 loaded. First time login into a forms session following the update forced me to download the JRE1.6.0.16 plugin (the version we loaded into the web server per the Metalink note). This behavior occurs whether using Firefox 3.5 or IE 8.

Is it true that static/non-static provisioning is no longer supported in 11i? Can you shed any light on this?

Best regards,
Andy Katz

Posted by Andy Katz on October 21, 2009 at 02:57 AM PDT #

Hi, Andy,

It was good to see you at OpenWorld last week.

I'm not sure I understand your question about our documentation. Both Notes still include an Appendix A, "Static vs. Non-Static Version and Set Up Options" sections. These have not been removed, and static versioning is still supported.

If you can't see them in Metalink, I'd suggest using a different browser such as Firefox. Some versions of IE truncate long Metalink Notes for mysterious reasons.

Regards,
Steven

Posted by Steven Chan on October 21, 2009 at 06:29 AM PDT #

Steven:
Well, what do you know? This is odd:
IE8, using My Oracle Support: can log in, search for 290807.1, click on the link and the frame opens, but remains blank.
IE8, same scenario, using "Compatibility View" feature: doc doesn't load at all.
IE8, using "Return to Classic Metalink": doc shows, WITH the Appendices as you described.
Firefox 3.5.3: My Oracle Support, frame with doc loads, but clicking on APPENDICES link has no effect. Manually scrolling through the document: no appendices headings, although some of the appendices data is there (I found Appdx B info, but no Appdx A stuff at all).

Thank you for pointing this out--I guess to make non-static work, I would best load a lower version of the JRE into the web server (as long as it's not any lower than the 1.6.x family that's on most of our desktops), not the latest/greatest called for in the document.

Regards,
Andy

Posted by Andy Katz on October 21, 2009 at 09:37 AM PDT #

Hi, Andy,

Weird. Browser + Flash oddities are the bane of my existence. I know it might be a bit of a pain, but I'm pretty sure that our My Oracle Support team would be interested in trying to fix the browser+MOS issues that you encountered. If you're willing to work through that, it would be great if you could log a Service Request to get one of our My Oracle Support developers engaged.

Good luck with your JRE deployments. Please drop me a line with an update on how that goes for you.

Regards,
Steven

Posted by Steven Chan on October 22, 2009 at 07:22 AM PDT #

Steven:
Opened SR 7773673.993 as you suggested. Will let you know how it works out.

As for the deployment, apparently some of the client-side issues for Firefox are patched, but only if apps is on ATGRUP6 or better, which is a whole other project Sandra and I are working on. Her thinking is to tack the JRE project to the ATG RUP update. My thinking is that I could do the JRE update and just have users consolidated on a single browser (IE, v7 or 8) as it allows non-static provisioning out of the box, so we don't have issues of client-side updating of the Java component.

Thanks,
Andy

Posted by Andy Katz on October 26, 2009 at 02:35 AM PDT #

Hi, Andy,

Someone on our My Oracle Support team has confirmed that the "Note truncation issue" is a known problem with IE8. This theoretically will be fixed with the upcoming refresh of My Oracle Support early next month. We'll see.

Good luck with your ATG RUP upgrade, too. I'd be interested in hearing how that goes.

Regards,
Steven

Posted by Steven Chan on October 27, 2009 at 04:28 AM PDT #

I'm having problems with a JRE upgrade and wondering if you can help. The environment is: 3 servers - 1 concurrent processing node, 1 admin/forms node, and 1 web node. Before the upgrade, everything worked perfectly. After the upgrade to 1.6.0_16, the forms won't open. I click on a link that should open a form, but it does nothing. I did this upgrade a month ago and it worked fine - the only difference then was that the forms server was on the web server node. This time they are separate. Any ideas?

Posted by Larry L on October 28, 2009 at 09:56 AM PDT #

Hi, Larry,

Sorry to hear that you're having problems with your latest JRE upgrade.

I suspect that there's some kind of simple configuration issue at play here. I'd like to get one of our desktop Java specialists to help you with this. Can you log a formal Service Request via My Oracle Support (formerly Metalink) to get one of our specialists engaged?

Please feel free to forward your Service Request number to me if it gets stuck in the support process for some reason.

Regards,
Steven

Posted by Steven Chan on October 29, 2009 at 02:50 AM PDT #

We Deployed JRE 1.60.16 two weeks back on our 11.5.10.2 EBS environment. we have applied form focus patch and everything seem to be working fine except a few issues.
1) When navigating through different tabs on form or navigating through results on a form, some times it seem to freeze the mouse movement and form doesn't respond.
Either user have to wait for a while or has to close that particular form and reopen it. Either case, it is a frustration for a user.
2)When users open an attachment, attachment blinks at the task bar, instead of opening on the screen. Several other windows
within Oracle are being displayed minimized. Prior to JRE, using Jinitiator, they used to open on the screen instead of staying in minimized state. Users feel it as an extra click to open them.
I couldn't find any resolutions or any one reporting same on web or metalink and not sure of any resolutions on this.

Posted by Sri V on November 02, 2009 at 04:33 AM PST #

Hi, Sri,

I'm glad to hear that your JRE conversion is working, overall. I haven't heard reports about either of the two issues that you've encountered. Your best bet would be to log two separate formal Service Requests via My Oracle Support (formerly Metalink) to get our specialists engaged.

Please feel free to forward your Service Request numbers to me if they gets stuck in the support process for some reason.

Regards,
Steven

Posted by Steven Chan on November 02, 2009 at 04:39 AM PST #

Hi Steven,
I would like to update note that,
Oracle support recommending us 6.0.8.28.0 and cpu interop patch 8758105 which seem to fix mouse focus issues. We are currently at 6.0.8.27.0. We will be looking into the upgrade.

Thanks
Sri

Posted by Sri Vejendla on November 03, 2009 at 12:28 AM PST #

Hi, Sri,

Thanks for the suggestion; I'll pass it on to the Note owners for their review.

Regards,
Steven

Posted by Steven Chan on November 03, 2009 at 02:19 AM PST #

Oracle has done almost nothing to help us with our outstanding focus issues using the jre. patch p8727236_10123_LINUX was supposed to help, and did solve one. Only problem is now we have three new issues.

I really hope that purchasing java does some good, because so far you fail.

Posted by Rocky Allen on November 06, 2009 at 02:39 AM PST #

Hello, Rocky,

I'm sorry to hear that you've been struggling with focus issues. I'd like to get someone to investigate this more deeply with you. Can you email me your Service Request numbers for the remaining three issues?

Regards,
Steven

Posted by Steven Chan on November 06, 2009 at 02:44 AM PST #

Issues might be different for each environment as complexities vary in each environment. I would like to share my experience here with JRE.
We have overcome two major issues after JRE upgrade.
1) Form focus and mouse focus issues.
2) Windows launched from forms stay minimized. Ex. we run a conc. request and once request complete, you go to view output from form, output will stay in minimized state instead of opening on form. This is an issue for users as user has to go through additional mouse clicks.

Resolution for issue One, we upgraded to developer 6i to patchset 19 which fixed issues with focus.
Resolution for issue 2 setting in java as per metalink note Browser Window Is Always Minimized When Viewing Concurrent Log/Out Files [ID 864861.1
.

Posted by Sri Vejendla on November 17, 2009 at 04:50 AM PST #

I just wanted to add that the latest 10.1.2.3 MLR from Notes 760250.1 and 393931.1 along with upgrading to the latest JRE 1.6.0_17 appears to have resolved our focus issues on 12.1.1.

8374931 APPS6: MERGE LABEL REQUEST ON TOP OF 10.1.2.3 FOR BUGS 8217396 7231982
https://updates.oracle.com/ARULink/PatchDetails/process_form?patch_num=8374931

Regards,
-Michael

Posted by Michael Taylor on December 22, 2009 at 05:47 AM PST #

Hi, Michael,

Good to hear from you -- it's been a while. Thanks for the feedback on MLR 8374931. I'm pleased that this MLR has resolved your focus issues; I'll make sure that this gets back to the team that owns that patch.

Regards,
Steven

Posted by Steven Chan on December 28, 2009 at 04:14 AM PST #

After testing SunJRE Update 16 and 17, we implemented the cutover to JRE in our production environment this past weekend, and as luck would have it, the latest version of it on java.com changed to Update 18 at the same time. Several people took it upon themselves to manually download and install Update 18 as opposed to waiting for the application server to download Update 16.

We found out that people with Update 18 cannot view file attachments associated with, for example, a Service Request, nor does exporting detail lines on a form to Excel work; instead, the system opens a new browser window and asks the user to log in again.

I've opened an SR with Support to address this issue, so for the moment, we've downgraded the version of SunJRE to 16, but it's only a matter of time before Java updates itself to the latest version.

I also have a small number of users who are getting "Microsoft Jscript runtime error - object expected" when they log onto the system. I haven't been able to find out the cause of this so far.

I'm also starting to see issues with Oracle Reports that use XML Publisher to generate PDF output. Custom reports that worked fine are now occasionally erroring out with XML errors; viewing the failed output results in a Visual C++ Runtime Library error. My guess is that these errors are most likely related to the simultaneous upgrade to RUP7, but I'm still researching them as well.

I can't say it's been smooth so far, especially when browser versions and Java updates appear without warning. And trying to get my user base to NOT automatically install everything under the sun (no pun intended) is like herding cats. My conclusion is that what I tested for seems to work ok. What I didn't test for, nor expected that I needed to, had issues. One really cannot test enough beforehand I guess!

Posted by Cal Blue on January 26, 2010 at 07:03 AM PST #

Hello, Cal,

Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences here. I can appreciate some of the challenges in managing end-users.

We have explicitly tested JRE 1.6.0_18 with both Oracle E-Business Suite Release 11i and 12. We have found no issues with this particular version in our internal certification environments.

I'd like to get someone to help you with the issues that you encountered. Can you log a formal Service Request (separately -- for each of the issues) via My Oracle Support (formerly Metalink) to get one of our specialists engaged?

Please feel free to forward your Service Request number to me if it gets stuck in the support process for some reason.

Regards,
Steven

Posted by Steven Chan on January 26, 2010 at 07:33 AM PST #

Following up on my earlier post; I opened an SR with Support (3-1357788631) and I've been given the choice of three workarounds:

1) Disabling the "Next Generation" feature in the JRE

2) Disabling Protected Mode (Vista / Windows 7)

3) Reverting back to JRE 1.6.0_17

These are outlined in document 1054293.1.

Would you please discuss the ramifications of each choice? We haven't begun deploying Vista or Windows 7 (although we want to), so option 2's impact isn't obvious to me yet. A quick test of option 1 works, but I don't know what I'm giving up by disabling this. And reverting back to an earlier version while Java is constantly trying to push the latest version out seems like a losing proposition.

By the way I'm curious as to how these bugs could have escaped detection if thorough testing was done. Was the current build version 1.6.0_18-b07 not available at the time?

Posted by Cal Blue on February 09, 2010 at 12:37 AM PST #

Hi, Cal,

I've asked one of our senior staff to work directly with the Support Engineer assigned to your Service Request on your questions.

As for your question about how this could have slipped through the cracks, well, this is the core problem that I alluded to in this article:

What Are Your Plans for Retiring Internet Explorer or IE6?
http://blogs.oracle.com/stevenChan/2010/02/plans_for_ie.html

Our challenge is that there are over thirty different desktop client x browser x JRE release combinations that could be certified with every new E-Business Suite patch or update. There are also over 200 E-Business Suite products to be tested with these thirty combinations, which results in a combinatorial space of over 6,000 different test beds. And this is before one begins to consider various EBS configuration options (e.g. ATG RUP 6 vs. ATG RUP 7, Apps 12.1.1 fresh install vs. upgrade from Apps 12.0.4 to 12.1.1), and the tests per individual product...

We do not have the resources to test every possible permutation comprehensively with every JRE release or Apps patch, so we are forced to select a subset of combinations to rotate through our certification process.

Regards,
Steven

Posted by Steven Chan on February 09, 2010 at 03:25 AM PST #

Hi Steven,

We have upgraded one for our TEST instance to Sun JRE.

We can see the difference in font size after upgrading to JRE. Our PROD instance is running with Jinititor (where the font looks normal) and but the font size on the instance which is running on JRE looks bigger.

We have raised an SR for the same. SR 3-1474574381.

Could you please update us with some valuable suggestions?

Thanks,
Krishnamoorthy

Posted by Krishnamoorthy on March 03, 2010 at 05:45 PM PST #

Hi, Krishnamoorthy,

This sounds like inherent differences in the way Sun handles fonts between JRE 1.3 and 1.6. If this cosmetic issue is affecting your users, you can work with the Support Engineer assigned to your Service Request to log an enhancement request against the Sun JRE.

Regards,
Steven

Posted by Steven Chan on March 05, 2010 at 03:38 AM PST #

Hi Steven,

Thanks for your prompt reply.

You mean to say that if we use JRE 1.3 there wont be any font issues? Please clarify.

Ours users are not feeling comfortable with the font issues and also japanese users are not able to see the letters clearly (some letters like i, j, l all looks like the same)

We have raised an SR and working with Oracle service engineer.

We had a OWC session with them but it couldnt help us in finding the cause!!

Given below is the SR number.

SR 3-1474574381.

Thanks,
Krishnamoorthy.

Posted by Krishnamoorthy on March 05, 2010 at 11:48 PM PST #

Hi, Krishnamoorthy,

No, that's incorrect. I'm not recommending that you use JRE 1.3.

JInitiator 1.3 is built on top of JRE 1.3, which has been desupported by Sun for many years. So, it is conceivable that there will be differences in how JInitiator/JRE 1.3 and JRE 1.6 handle fonts.

If this is a concern to your users, you can work with your Support Engineer to log an enhancement request against Sun's JRE 1.6.

Regards,
Steven

Posted by Steven Chan on March 06, 2010 at 03:11 AM PST #

Hi Steven,

We need to migrate our PROD instance from Jinitiator to JRE 1.6. So, we are in the process of testing it on one of our TEST instance. I had an OWC session with Oracle Support Enginner but I didnt get any update from them. :(

I am just waiting for Support Enginner's update!!

Thanks,
Krishnamoorthy

Posted by Krishnamoorthy on March 08, 2010 at 03:32 AM PST #

Hi Stevan,

We have upgraded to Sun JRE but users are receving digital certification warning.

We tried adjkey command to create digital certificate (which will create digital certificate for jinitiator)

We are confused why we need to create digital certificate for Jiniator since we use JRE?

Thanks,
Krishnamoorthy

Posted by Krishnamoorthy on March 29, 2010 at 07:28 PM PDT #

Hi, Krishnamoorthy,

Your best bet would be to log a formal Service Request via My Oracle Support (formerly Metalink) to get one of our specialists engaged.

Please feel free to forward your Service Request number to me if it gets stuck in the support process for some reason.

Regards,
Steven

Posted by Steven Chan on March 30, 2010 at 12:13 AM PDT #

Currently,we are installing the 1.6.0.21 on our server and configure appsweb.cfg,

[J16021]
connectMode=socket
serverPort=9008
sun_plugin_classid=clsid:CAFEEFAC-0016-0000-0021-ABCDEFFEDCBA
sun_plugin_version=1.6.0_21
sun_plugin_url=http://usla1-ora-app-29.aecomnet.com:8008/OA_HTML/j2se16021.exe
sun_plugin_mimetype=application/x-java-applet;jpi-version=1.6.0_21
sun_plugin_legacy_lifecycle=false
plugin=jdk
;

Also modify the ICX:Forms Launcher to use this config by passing the parameter ?config=16021.
For somereason, when a desktop client has 1.6.0.21 & 22, the forms will use the 1.6.0.22. We would like it to use 1.6.0.21.
Is there anything wrong with oursetup?

Posted by Damasus Laij on November 11, 2010 at 05:06 AM PST #

Hi, Damasus,

You're hitting the behaviour associated with non-static versioning. Please see our JRE documentation (e.g. Note 290807.1 for EBS 11i) for more details. The Appendix titled, "Static vs. Non-Static Versioning and Set Up Options" should help.

If you have any questions about that, please feel free to log a formal Service Request via My Oracle Support (formerly Metalink) to get one of our specialists engaged.

Regards,
Steven

Posted by Steven Chan on November 12, 2010 at 04:13 AM PST #

Hi Steven,

Is the R12 10.1.2.3 forms compitable to run in parrallel with an 11i 9.0.4 forms server on the same machine ?

I would have thought it was, but had heard that for core forms there is an incompability issue when running both versions on the same server. An ACS member told us they cannot exist together. My question is does this apply to Ebusiness suite?

On the machine in qustion - we are using the Sun jdk

Thanks very much

Posted by Oli on December 13, 2010 at 08:04 PM PST #

Hi, Oli,

I haven't tried this myself, but it should be theoretically possible, as long as you avoid port conflicts and ensure that the respective filesystems for the EBS 11i and 12 instances are in their own separate ORACLE_HOMEs.

Regards,
Steven

Posted by Steven Chan on December 14, 2010 at 02:14 AM PST #

Hi Steven,

We need to know oracle apps 11i is compatible with JRe 1.6.0.22

As this is a audit requirement. I tried to search on net i could not find any doc on this.

Posted by guest on September 11, 2013 at 12:47 AM PDT #

Hi, Guest,

I've published a one-page summary of all of the latest E-Business Suite techstack certifications externally here:

http://blogs.oracle.com/stevenChan/resource/certifications.html

That listing summarizes the official CERTIFY database on My Oracle Support. The CERTIFY database is the official and authoritative reference for all E-Business Suite certifications.

Our standard policy is that all E-Business Suite customers can apply all JRE updates to end-user desktops from JRE 1.6.0_03 and later updates on the 1.6 codeline, and from JRE 7u10 and later updates on the JRE 7 codeline. We test all new JRE 1.6 and JRE 7 releases in parallel with the JRE development process, so all new JRE 1.6 and 7 releases are considered certified with the E-Business Suite on the same day that they're released by our Java team.

You do not need to wait for a certification announcement before applying new JRE 1.6 or JRE 7 releases to your EBS users' desktops.

The latest version certified as of today is 1.6.0_60. See this externally-published article:

Java JRE 1.6.0_60 Certified with Oracle E-Business Suite (Oracle E-Business Suite Technology)
https://blogs.oracle.com/stevenChan/entry/java_jre_1_6_09

Regards,
Steven

Posted by Steven Chan on September 11, 2013 at 09:04 AM PDT #

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