Chocolate on my peanut butter?
No, peanut butter on my chocolate!
All I can say for the moment is... stay tuned.
Linus joining Sun!?
Sounds to me like ON, or parts of it, will be re/dual-licensed under GPL v3.
1. ZFS coming to Linux?
2. Sun is buying Linux?
3. Linus is buying Sun?
4. Did Linus finally pop the question?? ; )
The suspense is killing me!!
Yeah, let's decrease the reasons why people would want to pick up Solaris. Wonderful business strategy. ( still a good time to short JAVA? )
Take a look at Jim Grisanzio's blog:http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris/entry/zfs_pics
He called it ZFS Pics :-)
Well, Jeff had a hand in writing ZFS, so that's why I called it ZFS pics. :)
I think the tag on the post gives it away :)
Maybe I'm old school, but I agree with J, if you let Linux have ZFS, it's like porting Solaris to x86, the stupidest move you ever made. Now no one is forced to buy your computers, and your stock sucks. Face it, proprietary is the only way to go.
@ Old SchoolFirst of ll ZFS is not proprietary in the license sense.
Second allowing the Linux community to use ZFS will broaden the usage of ZFS meaning that more people will have their eyes on the code and hopefully contribute back. Keep in mind that this has already happened with other OS's such as FreeBSD and Mac OS X who have already integrated ZFS - the world hasn't fallen apart just yet...
On people being "forced" to buy Sun computers, today with OpenSolaris they are not forced to buy Sun either. Sun OEM's Solaris to IBM and Dell whilst HP will happily tell you that they ship more Solaris boxes than sun.
As for x86 being the stupidest move ever made by Sun I would love to know how you justify that comment (Commercially, technically???)
I'll tell ya... I'm going to be investing about $125k in new hardware this quarter.
There's no way in hell I'm going to run OpenSolaris.
It might be an AWESOME OS but I've run Linux for years, I know the kernel inside and out, I grok all the idiosyncrasies.
Having SUN ship us Linux hardware that runs Debian and ZFS is going to be good thing.
I'd MUCH rather buy from a vendor that cares about my OS....
... and maybe one day we'll switch to OpenSolaris... who knows.
"I'm going to be investing about $125k in new hardware this quarter. "
"maybe one day we'll switch to OpenSolaris... who knows."
You exactly illustrate why a community will always play a minor role.
Because of the money.
So please, go away with all your money and let the good ideas participate. Noone here wants how companies rip off while f\*ck\*ng up 'simple' but somewhat experienced \*nix users. See how \*nix is unable to compete with Micros\*ft's illegal business strategies and its de-facto monopoly?
Because there is an inside enemy just as well which pursues his own interest.
I can't help but admire Solaris and I would hate to think that Sun could box it for Linux. I don't see it happening. I think it's much more likely that ZFS will be coming to Linux, or Linus will be working on OpenSolaris. Sun has already hired some prominent Linux devs to do this. Much of the Linux community seems to have something against Solaris (particularly OpenSolaris). Having Linus onboard would go a long way to bridging the two. Personally, I've been seriously considering a switch to OpenSolaris given the amazing quality of the latest release :).
Markus, I have no idea what your point is or how a CTO/engineer not wanting to invest his money in technology that is not familiar to him has anything directly to do with Microsoft. Business is about taking mostly logical and somewhat planned steps... Jumping on the bandwagon for every new wizbang techno-widget that hits the market is almost a guarantee of trouble ahead. I've worked with a lot of start up companies over the years and the above is more true for them then anyone else. Smaller companies can't afford to make mistakes in building their infrastructure. In a couple cases it would have been suicidal for me to recommend using anything but linux because its easier to find linux guru's then anything else...therefore easier to hire people to run the machine that powers the business that makes my paycheck.
Also Open source communities play a HUGE role in my world and a lot of other peoples as well. I'm always going to lean towards FOSS projects that have large and well developed user communities because it increases the safety net of finding answers to my problems when something breaks, melts, or crawls in a corner and dies.
So, is it 'Linux get ZFS' or 'Linus works on ZFS for Sun' ?
I look forward to finding out.
It might make sense for Linux to get ZFS, as it would provide a huge user base for heavy testing, and would make the Linux community very happy, no doubt :)
To people saying ZFS on Linux would stop anyone getting Solaris, what about FreeBSD and MacOS, which already have ZFS (in slightly old forms admittedly)? ZFS is still a massive draw to OpenSolaris for people, despite FreeBSD and MacOS having implementations too? Though I can still see where people are coming from.
I'd love see ZFS on Linux, but as far I know CDDL is incompatible with GPL so ZFS can be only at on Linux on FUSE but not inside Linux Kernel.I'll stay tuned. ;D
Oldschool, but Solaris IS available for x86 (as part of OpenSolaris), and has been for a while.
corresponding to this:
Is it just a coincidence that the title is Casablanca, and the end line of the film is : "Louis, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship."
And with the peanut butter and chocolate, check out : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reese%27s
In the 1970s, a series of commercials was run for Reese's Peanut Butter Cups featuring situations in which two people, one eating peanut butter and one eating chocolate, collided. One person would say, "you got peanut butter in my chocolate" and the other would reply, "you got chocolate in my peanut butter." They would then sample the mixture and remark on the great taste, tying in with the slogan "two great tastes that taste great together."
Linus has his feet on someone's nice chair.
So, was Jonathan Schwartz in the kitchen cooking dinner? :-)
>Much of the Linux community >seems to have something against >Solaris (particularly OpenSolaris).
Yeah...because the solaris community(and Sun) is full of people like this....
>Yeah, let's decrease the reasons>why people would want to pick >up Solaris. Wonderful business >strategy.
>Face it, proprietary is the only >way to go.
Those are PERFECT examples of why OpenSolaris will NEVER EVER EVER be anything but a minor player in open source. Linux is as big as it is BEACUSE of the GPL...its the reason why Linux is more popular than BSD too.
You will not attract a community of people willing to put their own time/money/effort into something with 'propeitary is the way to go' as an attitude.
Call me a negative nancy, but pushing for ZFS on Linux is going to play out negatively for OpenSolaris. People are already harping on why anyone would need OpenSolaris as it is.
Sun should re-license ZFS to GPLv2/3.
Linux is the way to go, Linux FTW.
"To people saying ZFS on Linux would stop anyone getting Solaris, what about FreeBSD and MacOS, which already have ZFS (in slightly old forms admittedly)? ZFS is still a massive draw to OpenSolaris for people, despite FreeBSD and MacOS having implementations too?"
you mean, the buggy experimental FreeBSD implementation and the incomplete MacOS implementation?... yes, basically, they DON'T have ZFS yet... they are only trying to
"Sun should re-license ZFS to GPLv2/3.
Linux is the way to go, Linux FTW."
See, that's what I'm talking about.
Who the hell cares about OpenSolaris really?
Not me, sorry. People are not just going to switch to a completely new OS just because to have a new FS that can be replaced in the future.
Sorry for sounding too harsh sometimes.
But what I'm trying to say is, right now the main attention is on Linux, sure... OpenSolaris might be decent and competition is always good... but if Sun really cares about Open Source they should re-license ZFS as GPLv3, I'm not going to re-learn a new OS, I spent 8 years of my life learning Linux inside-out, and I'm not going to re-learn something new just because of ZFS, and I'm sure many people, including companies, are not going to re-train their employees for the same reason.
If Sun really cares about open source they should re-license ZFS and be collaborative instead of being too selfish with their OS, by doing this they will gain my confiance and my trust, and I'm sure they can make money with Linux too.
#1 anyone that thinks Linus will be coding for opensolaris is clueless. The guys ego is such that he'll never work on anything but his \*baby\*. The only reason he'd have a grin like that on his face is if he feels he \*beat\* Sun by pressuring them to adopt his ideals.
#2 yes, zfs is currently cddl which does not allow linux integration. Hence: ZFS is going GPL/CDDL dual licensed.
Unfortunate if only because it gives that crybaby Linus what he wanted.
Since we're playing a guessing game as to what the pictures are about I figured I'd give it my interpretation. Since Sun is considering dual licensing OpenSolaris as CDDL/GPL3, my opinion is they won't unless Linux is licensed GPL3 also. So maybe the're in negotiation to see if they can both agree to the advantages of going GPL3.
Ha, Guinness, the secret of it all !
Paul: That's impossible, Linus doesn't own the copyright to the kernel. That's been discussed at length before
I'm not sure what the tit-for-tat in this situation was, but I'm /really/ hoping it's something to Sun's advantage, because they're simultaneously crippling Solaris for Solaris users to woo Linux users (indiana/2008.05), and removing the reasons for Linux users to switch if they don't.
You guys are all way off base. I know for a fact Linus is taking a job at sun to work on OpenSolaris full time. He will be retiring from Linux development and passing the leadership reigns onto Greg Kroah-Hartman.
Linus at Sun? no \*\*\*\*\*\*\* way
Whoever makes Linux own the copyright and Linus is a significant part-owner of it. If they did want to relicense under GPLv3 they'd need permission from all the copyright holders, or they could plan to write those parts of the code out of existence. So there are ways of doing relicensing on projects this large.
That said, it's probably more likely to be ZFS.
zfs + linux
J: True, but if you were trying to change Linux license to GPL3, you first need Linus's support to help convince all othe parties to change.
Now if what Anonymous Guy says is true, that blows away any other theory.
Oh Jeff, you tease! :-D
@Anonymous Guy:Except it won't be GregKH, it'll be Steve Jobs.And boy, will the new acronym MAC/Linux piss RMS off.
Is it just me or does it strike anybody else as odd that there's only one bottle of beer standing in the middle of the table ("one bottle of beer on the table, one bottle of beer..."). They don't seem to have any glasses.
Is it product placement, have they already drunk the others (and Jonathan Schwartz has picked up the remains) or are they sharing the same bottle?
These pictures are scary on so many levels...
Will have btrfs soon, not needing zfs.
Huh ;) Beer is good :P
I dont get it. Is SUN selfish with their OS? Have not SUN opened up all their technology? Isnt it free to download and read the source code? As for Java, it isnt standardised yet, because Microsoft doesnt want that:http://www.openmalaysiablog.com/2007/09/microsoft-conde.html
Why dont you complain on IBM, SAP, Oracle or Microsoft? Have they opened up their main software? Is AIX open? Windows? Word? etc? How can you call SUN selfish and closed, in light of this (open Solaris, Java, Open Office, ZFS, DTrace, etc)? Please explain, because right now, I dont understand how you are reasoning.
When is a company acceptable by your premises? Is it when they bow to Linux and do everything suitable for Linux? Simply opening up all code is not enough, it must be opened in a way that suits Linux? Never mind opening up for FreeBSD, etc? It is only opening up for Linux that counts? If you open up your code randomly, it is not ok? Would you rather have SUN and all other companies closed source? Is SUN opening up, a bad thing? Why not support companies that gives away all their technology? You support Microsoft/IBM/etc, but not SUN?
Can someone explain why SUN is a bad company but not Microsoft?
Since MS aren't in the unix business (and they are, lets face it, _Microsoft_) they're bad and evil by default so there's no need commenting on it. Oh, and they have released Office Open XML, let's not forget abot that! ;)
While IBM hasn't opened AIX, they're a substantial contributor to the linux kernel at least.
The problem with SUN (as I undestand it) is that they have put up quite a few hurdles for the community that wants to help developing the source (then there's also the Novell-SCO-SUN question weather they had the rights to opensource Solaris, but that's another can of worms).
Also, releasing code under CDDL which is incompatible with GPL doesn't make the linux community any good.The BSD camps can cheer away as much as thay like (and good for them!) but I guess the linux/GPL folks have equal rights to view their feelings on the matter.
> Can someone explain why SUN is a bad company but not Microsoft?
M$ is out of the question. You sound like a WhiteHouse official who repies "Sudan an Libya are much worse" on a question about Guantanamo.
Excellent news. One thing that I have noticed in the past 3-5 years are efforts to consolidate good ideas and work on them, make them better, and give them back up in the next 'distro' form. This consolidation of effort is good for \*nix regardless what flavor. If Linux takes on ZFS, great. At the same time I admire SUN's efforts to finally recognize benefits of the Open Source community (OpenSolaris, MySQL, caugh, caugh). It did Google great goods, and I can only see more money coming toward Sun's, Red Hat's and new IBM's of the world. MicroSoft - watch out.
"M$ is out of the question. You sound like a WhiteHouse official who repies "Sudan an Libya are much worse" on a question about Guantanamo."
I am asking, which other proprietary big IT-company has open sourced their crown jewels? Open sourced everything, and everything they buy? MySQL was about to close parts of their code, but thanx to SUN everything remains open now. Do you mean SUN is doing evil things? Maybe with hindsight, it turned out to be a bad thing to give away everything that SUN does. People dont want SUN to give away ZFS. Maybe SUN goes bankrupt in 10 years? This is a very bold step by SUN. So tell me, which other large dinosaur company, has open sourced their crown jewels?
Sure, IBM is contributing to the Linux Kernel, that is good. But SUN is the company that has easily contributed most to the open community, in terms of lines of code, according to some survey by some company, I can google and post that link if you wish. It is better to open much less software, if you instead contribute to the Linux kernel? IBM is better than SUN because IBM is contributing much less code than SUN, but IBM contributes to the linux kernel?
Are you complaining because ZFS is not GPL? Is that the problem? It is not enough that ZFS is open source? ZFS, Dtrace, etc must be opened on Linus Torvalds terms, or not at all? Is it so? Yes, that sounds sound and fair.
Is it just me, or do you get the impression of Linux community beeing quite egocentric? ZFS is available for FreeBSD and Mac. It is open. It is free. What more do you want? Should it be photo copied and delivered to Linus Torvalds office? The next time, SUN should wait with releasing anything until Linus says ok and has dictated everything as he wants it?
Seriously. I dont get it. Which other company has opened it's crown jewels and are giving away everything? Would you rather not? Why not support the only company doing this? Why not show the world that it is a good thing to open up everything, it can only be better? As of now, there are only complaints instead of support for the painful process SUN is going through. Will it be better if SUN goes bankrupt? Do you wish that? No other company would dare to open anything, then.
Theorem. SUN is evil.
Proof. SUN is the only large IT company opening up their crown jewels and giving away everything they buy and own. No other large company is doing this. Ergo, SUN is evil. QED.
Wow, a huge feedback. Probably because people are being allowed pretend what might happen, which is fun. Imagine Linus got hired! Imagine ZFS went into Linux. Its totally win-win, so no problem! In terms of giving you back the data that you gave it, nothing touches ZFS. The best part about Solaris being run by a huge company like Sun, is that ideas get the support they need to become good ideas made well. The whole UNIX/Linux thing is just about preference really. If I want 64 procs and 2TB of RAM, i'll run Solaris. If I want a slick FOSS desktop, I'll use a linux with GNOME, or something like that. Its win-win again. :) Theres so much choice, its like being a kid in a sweet shop!!!!SWEETIES!!!!!
remember kids, sweets should consumed as part of a healthy balanced diet, and brush your teeth twice a day :)
Sun does a lot for the developer community and the student community. No other comes does it. Sun is good.God bless Sun.
I appreciate this attitude. The world needs people like them.
opensolaris X linux does not makes sense. They do not own most of the market.
Think about that.
Here is my version :http://napobo3.blogspot.com/2008/05/casablanca.html
If Linus really wants ZFS he just has to add an exception for it in his license, just as is done for binary drivers (AKA blobs).
"These pictures are scary on so many levels..."
That's the only reasonable comment here guys ! :)
If you look at the first two pictures again I'll give you another one:
The Sun's shining on Linus/x !(scary, I know - escpecially with such a pale skin ! harhar :)
(says a little Linux fan/user that would be soooo happy to be freed of fixed partition sizes and is grateful to Sun for Java, OpenOffice and to IBM for Eclipse and to all my customers letting me combine these cool technologies and earn some good money)
And now comes the hardest part.. adding 6 + 53.. where's that darn calculator again in KDE ?!?....
> where's that darn calculator again in KDE
Come on Jeff, the suspense is killing us!
Hi all,sooo.. it's been a week.. any news?
We are still waiting ...
What more do you want? Should it be photo copied and delivered to Linus Torvalds office? The next time, SUN should wait with releasing anything until Linus says ok and has dictated everything as he wants it?
What is going on. See Linus diss SUN...
Nothing new...move on...
I can't stand the wait ... puh lease
Is Linux getting ZFS anytime soon! Jeff, any further hints ?!!oO
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