Is Oracle's middleware \*that\* bad?

Just like everyone else, I've been following the ORCL/BEAS announcement and comments here and there. Whether this goes through now, later or not, I obviously believe this creates extra opportunities for GlassFish which I believe is the right product at the right time. But what amazes me the most are the very negative reactions strongly criticizing (to say the least) the Oracle middleware products.

Comments:

Yes. No other answer possible. I work at an Oracle company (not THE Oracle company) but since Oracle started buying things (instead of creating things), the quality rapidly went downhill. They'd better put the money in the products they already have, instead of eliminating the competition by buying them.
Every new version of the application server means something you already created doesn't work anymore. And things you are used to are changed. The management console is a laughter. To work with the iAS, you need to use JDeveloper (in spite of the attempts of a Netbeans OC4J module).
I'm not saying the middleware stack doesn't do what it's supposed to do, but the way to get there and the price for it is just absurd.

I recently became a big fan of Netbeans/Glassfish, which of course, is a big curse at my company. We'll see where that leads to....

Posted by SwitchBL8 on octobre 13, 2007 at 05:41 AM CEST #

Seems like you are worried about Oracle's economic power. In fact Oracle has been very successful in the last quarters. Ellison's aquisition-strategy has worked. Revenues were up 25% in the last quarter for Oracle.

Now I hope that Oracle continues to bet on the Eclipse-platform. Oracle is already heavily involved in Eclipse-technology. When buying BEA they get another stack in Eclipse.

I'm quite happy because that means Eclipse-users will get more powerful tools and more choice. I hope that the already excellent JDeveloper-IDE will be an Eclipse-based product very soon.

Hard time to come for Sun Microsystems. Seems like Sun's NetBeans-project is doomed. There is too much competition from companies betting on Eclipse.

Posted by Elly Larrison on octobre 14, 2007 at 02:38 AM CEST #

Not everyone likes Eclipse as much as you do. There is an ever growing NetBeans community out there, and many of them are Eclipse converts like myself. If you gave NetBeans 6.0 a serious look you would see that NetBeans is far from doomed and is serious competition for Eclipse. It has been winning awards year after year. Eclipse will never go away, but neither will NetBeans.

Posted by Ryan on octobre 14, 2007 at 09:52 AM CEST #

I forgot to mention that the Eclipse the platform is bare bones and _needs_ a large plugin development community. It needs companies that will aggregate plugins to create usable IDEs. This costs money, and therefore most good plugins and IDEs built on Eclipse cost serious money. They're all in it to make money. Oracle, MyEclipse, BEA, IBM, Borland, everyone.

NetBeans on the other hand has everything you need out of the box (especially 6.0) and is free. There isn't a need for companies to create as many plugins, or even an IDE built on top of the NetBeans platform because Sun has done a great job already.

Therefore the Eclipse plugin community size is not a factor for me when choosing an IDE. I look at the cost and features of IDEs built on top of Eclipse, IntelliJ and NetBeans. IntelliJ's plugin community isn't as large as Eclipse but they have a superior IDE. I think NetBeans is on the same path. There is a market for it. Like you said, we have more choices now.

Just have a look at NetBeans 6.0 (or even 5.5) and you'll see why Eclipse felt the need to create Callisto.

Posted by Ryan on octobre 14, 2007 at 10:11 AM CEST #

@Elly: Oracle is indeed successful as a company. Are you as a customer? And how will that change if BEA is acquired?

Posted by Alexis MP on octobre 14, 2007 at 04:36 PM CEST #

yes, glassfish is nice, but it really needs good cms support. It's why i will switch instead for jboss. No cms = no standard/easy web frontend = no futur.

and for the god eclipse : I wanted to see; I saw, come back to netbeans. Of course if you like app that need dozen of plugins and a crash barrely every 15min (i won't even start with the swing editor...) it might be "correct". btw, everyone talks about its great editor, I can't stand it ! what's so great netbeans' editor does no have ???

Posted by j.a.l on octobre 15, 2007 at 03:05 AM CEST #

Hello j.a.l. I'm confused, by CMS, do you mean Content Management System?

Posted by Alexis MP on octobre 15, 2007 at 08:18 AM CEST #

@Elly: JDeveloper is not an Excellent IDE. You need it when you have to work in an Oracle environment. And it's big. And the new version (11g) has the worst userinterface you can think of.
When not working for my company, I use Netbeans (6 beta 1 now). The editor is far better then JDeveloper's. Very easy to work with foreign libraries and it's combination with Glassfish is (imho) unbeatable.

Posted by SwitchBL8 on octobre 18, 2007 at 03:01 AM CEST #

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